I received the following comment on my article regarding the real origins of Christmas. Just a reminder, my blog is not a debate site. If you don’t like what I post, you’re welcome to read something more to your liking. Additionally, specifically to this commenter, all comments are moderated, therefore sending the same comment repeatedly is not going to make it automatically appear. I’m only replying to this comment as it allows me to further elucidate my point. My reply is in red.
This article is lacking in references.
[On the contrary, there are numerous references included in the body of the article: quotes from noted experts Dr. William Tighe and Mark Shea, reference to the writings of St. John Chrysostom, reference to the Handbook of Biblical Chronology by Jack Finegan (Hendrickson, 1998 revised edition) and references to Sacred Scripture.
However, if you want even further reference:
Hugo Rahner, Greek Myths and Christian Mystery (New York: Harper and Row, 1963), p. 134f.
Abbot Gueranger, OSB (trans. Dom Laurence Shepherd), The Liturgical Year: Vol. 2, Christmas – Book 1, (Great Falls, MT: Bonaventure Publications, Originally Published 1949, Republished 2000), p. 1-5.
I refer you as well to Mary Mother of the Son, Vol. I – III by Mark Shea which includes even further source citations for his quotes in my article.
You may reference as well the writings of the Early Church Fathers.
Again, one must keep in mind the “pagan origins of Christmas” myth was started by a 17th century anti-Catholic Protestant and was left unchallenged by an 18th century Benedictine monk, who added to the myth by attempting to explain it away instead of objecting to it and doing independent research to counter it. Consequently, this myth has continued to perpetuate in secular, Protestant and even Catholic writing. However, as the scholarship I’ve referenced shows, when the historical source of the “pagan origins” myth is traced, it leads back to these two men.
So, yes, I grant that most sources, secular and religious, continue to portray this myth as fact or a “theory.” Yet, a myth is still a myth and the Truth is still the Truth – even if one refuses to accept the Truth.]
Such as, “Widespread and systematic Roman (pagan) persecution of Christianity lasted into the fourth century, by which time the major feast days and practices of Christianity were already established.” Where did Steve get the information that Christians had established any major feast days?
[Steve got the information from any number of Church history books. This information is easily obtained and rather common knowledge for Christians who actually know the history and tenets of their faith. Wikipedia, a decidedly secular source, even has an article on Roman persecution of Christians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Roman_Empire, which states that Roman persecution of Christians continued through AD 380, which is the fourth century. The fact that systematic persecution of Christians by pagan Romans lasted into the fourth century is not disputed by any serious Biblical scholar or even secular historian.
In your next sentence, you answer your own question. In which century was AD 325? In addition, you will note I said major feast days, not all feast days. For Catholicism, the major feast days are Easter and Christmas. These are the two major events around which the Liturgical calendar revolves. There is absolutely no argument among Church history scholars that both of these were established as feast days not later than the fourth century.
Church history scholars agree Easter was established very early in the history of the Church and that Christmas was established at the latest in AD 325 – in other words, the major feast days were established by the fourth century. More to the point: the major feast days were established before the end of systematic persecution of early Christians by non-Christians.
As the article states, the main point here is that pagan Rome remained decidedly in control, not the Church. Therefore, early Christians were not in a position to take anything from anyone (even if they had so desired) – they remained a tad busy having their lives taken by pagan Romans and other non-Christians.]
According to Nave’s Topical Bible Christmas was first observed on December 25 during the time of Constantine in A.D. 325.
[The myth of “pagan origins for Christmas” was started by a 17th century anti-Catholic Protestant. Should it really be any surprise this myth continued to be perpetuated in a Protestant Bible from the late 1800s? I don’t think any further comment on this point is necessary.
Also, as discussed in the article, there is a distinction between fixing the date of Jesus’ birth and the institution of Christmas as a feast day in the Catholic Church. The “pagan origins of Christmas” proponents claim the establishment of the Feast of the Nativity as a universal Church Holy Day after the institution of Sol Invictus as their “proof.” However, this argument misses a critical point: was it Aurelian’s sun cult or early Christians who first assigned any significance to December 25th? Therefore, the fact that Hippolytus was writing about December 25th as the birth date of Jesus three decades before Emperor Aurelian instituted Sol Invictus shows the date was important to Christians before it was important to pagan Romans – or rather before it was important to one rather obscure pagan Roman sun-worship cult. Is it a big surprise that when the universal Church Holy Day of Christmas was instituted, its date was set as the Church’s already-accepted date of Jesus’ birth? Yet this isn’t even the most important point.
In the end, as the article pointed out, dates and who-did-what-first are not the main issues, nor even critical issues. Even though the historical record shows otherwise, it could turn out that early Christians didn’t assign any significance to December 25th until after Aurelian established Sol Invictus and the “pagan origins of Christmas” would still be a false claim. Again as the article stated, the critical point is identifying the motivation of the early Christians. In order for the “pagan origins of Christmas” claims to hold true, it must be shown that the early Christians’ motivation was in somehow “taking from” or “copying” pagan Romans or a drive to “Christianize” pagan Roman practices.
However, the actual historical record proves the early Christians’ motivation had nothing to do with pagan Roman practices or beliefs. Their debates did not hinge on which pagan cult was doing what and how it could best be integrated into the Church. Instead, their debates hinged on the ministry of Jesus Christ. They cared about what the message of Jesus Christ taught them to believe and to do. Their motivations very clearly grew from their developing Christian identity based on the preaching of Jesus Christ and the faith’s roots in Judaism and had nothing to do “paganizing” Christianity or “Christianizing” paganism. Therefore, claiming “pagan origins for Christmas” is utter nonsense and an urban legend which should have been put to bed centuries ago.
Therefore, Merry Christmas on this Christian Holy Day!]
The Blaze News
Semper Alacer 
The Myth that Just Won’t Die
I received the following comment on my article regarding the real origins of Christmas. Just a reminder, my blog is not a debate site. If you don’t like what I post, you’re welcome to read something more to your liking. Additionally, specifically to this commenter, all comments are moderated, therefore sending the same comment repeatedly is not going to make it automatically appear. I’m only replying to this comment as it allows me to further elucidate my point. My reply is in red.
This article is lacking in references.
[On the contrary, there are numerous references included in the body of the article: quotes from noted experts Dr. William Tighe and Mark Shea, reference to the writings of St. John Chrysostom, reference to the Handbook of Biblical Chronology by Jack Finegan (Hendrickson, 1998 revised edition) and references to Sacred Scripture.
However, if you want even further reference:
Hugo Rahner, Greek Myths and Christian Mystery (New York: Harper and Row, 1963), p. 134f.
Abbot Gueranger, OSB (trans. Dom Laurence Shepherd), The Liturgical Year: Vol. 2, Christmas – Book 1, (Great Falls, MT: Bonaventure Publications, Originally Published 1949, Republished 2000), p. 1-5.
I refer you as well to Mary Mother of the Son, Vol. I – III by Mark Shea which includes even further source citations for his quotes in my article.
You may reference as well the writings of the Early Church Fathers.
Again, one must keep in mind the “pagan origins of Christmas” myth was started by a 17th century anti-Catholic Protestant and was left unchallenged by an 18th century Benedictine monk, who added to the myth by attempting to explain it away instead of objecting to it and doing independent research to counter it. Consequently, this myth has continued to perpetuate in secular, Protestant and even Catholic writing. However, as the scholarship I’ve referenced shows, when the historical source of the “pagan origins” myth is traced, it leads back to these two men.
So, yes, I grant that most sources, secular and religious, continue to portray this myth as fact or a “theory.” Yet, a myth is still a myth and the Truth is still the Truth – even if one refuses to accept the Truth.]
Such as, “Widespread and systematic Roman (pagan) persecution of Christianity lasted into the fourth century, by which time the major feast days and practices of Christianity were already established.” Where did Steve get the information that Christians had established any major feast days?
[Steve got the information from any number of Church history books. This information is easily obtained and rather common knowledge for Christians who actually know the history and tenets of their faith. Wikipedia, a decidedly secular source, even has an article on Roman persecution of Christians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Roman_Empire, which states that Roman persecution of Christians continued through AD 380, which is the fourth century. The fact that systematic persecution of Christians by pagan Romans lasted into the fourth century is not disputed by any serious Biblical scholar or even secular historian.
In your next sentence, you answer your own question. In which century was AD 325? In addition, you will note I said major feast days, not all feast days. For Catholicism, the major feast days are Easter and Christmas. These are the two major events around which the Liturgical calendar revolves. There is absolutely no argument among Church history scholars that both of these were established as feast days not later than the fourth century.
Church history scholars agree Easter was established very early in the history of the Church and that Christmas was established at the latest in AD 325 – in other words, the major feast days were established by the fourth century. More to the point: the major feast days were established before the end of systematic persecution of early Christians by non-Christians.
As the article states, the main point here is that pagan Rome remained decidedly in control, not the Church. Therefore, early Christians were not in a position to take anything from anyone (even if they had so desired) – they remained a tad busy having their lives taken by pagan Romans and other non-Christians.]
According to Nave’s Topical Bible Christmas was first observed on December 25 during the time of Constantine in A.D. 325.
[The myth of “pagan origins for Christmas” was started by a 17th century anti-Catholic Protestant. Should it really be any surprise this myth continued to be perpetuated in a Protestant Bible from the late 1800s? I don’t think any further comment on this point is necessary.
Also, as discussed in the article, there is a distinction between fixing the date of Jesus’ birth and the institution of Christmas as a feast day in the Catholic Church. The “pagan origins of Christmas” proponents claim the establishment of the Feast of the Nativity as a universal Church Holy Day after the institution of Sol Invictus as their “proof.” However, this argument misses a critical point: was it Aurelian’s sun cult or early Christians who first assigned any significance to December 25th? Therefore, the fact that Hippolytus was writing about December 25th as the birth date of Jesus three decades before Emperor Aurelian instituted Sol Invictus shows the date was important to Christians before it was important to pagan Romans – or rather before it was important to one rather obscure pagan Roman sun-worship cult. Is it a big surprise that when the universal Church Holy Day of Christmas was instituted, its date was set as the Church’s already-accepted date of Jesus’ birth? Yet this isn’t even the most important point.
In the end, as the article pointed out, dates and who-did-what-first are not the main issues, nor even critical issues. Even though the historical record shows otherwise, it could turn out that early Christians didn’t assign any significance to December 25th until after Aurelian established Sol Invictus and the “pagan origins of Christmas” would still be a false claim. Again as the article stated, the critical point is identifying the motivation of the early Christians. In order for the “pagan origins of Christmas” claims to hold true, it must be shown that the early Christians’ motivation was in somehow “taking from” or “copying” pagan Romans or a drive to “Christianize” pagan Roman practices.
However, the actual historical record proves the early Christians’ motivation had nothing to do with pagan Roman practices or beliefs. Their debates did not hinge on which pagan cult was doing what and how it could best be integrated into the Church. Instead, their debates hinged on the ministry of Jesus Christ. They cared about what the message of Jesus Christ taught them to believe and to do. Their motivations very clearly grew from their developing Christian identity based on the preaching of Jesus Christ and the faith’s roots in Judaism and had nothing to do “paganizing” Christianity or “Christianizing” paganism. Therefore, claiming “pagan origins for Christmas” is utter nonsense and an urban legend which should have been put to bed centuries ago.
Therefore, Merry Christmas on this Christian Holy Day!]
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